Abe Eshkenazi: 0:00

Agility provides you greater visibility, much earlier in the process so that you can make the appropriate decisions. Decisions are required much faster today than they ever were. Today in a world of export controls, climate volatility and industrial policy shifts. Agility now is the competitive advantage.

Tom Raftery: 0:28

In today's episode of the Resilient Supply Chain Podcast. I'm joined by Abe Eshkenazi, CEO of ASCM, the Association for Supply Chain Management. Abe has seen supply chain move from a quiet back office function to a boardroom priority, and in this conversation we unpack what that shift really means. Now that export controls climate, volatility, tariffs, cybersecurity, geopolitics, and industrial policy are all colliding at once. The big takeaway is this, resilient supply chains are no longer just about recovering from shocks. They're about seeing earlier, deciding faster, and building optionality before disruption becomes expensive. And one of the most telling moments in the conversation is Abe's point that after the pandemic, half of companies wanted to get back to where they were while the other half accepted they were never going back. And that split says a lot about who's prepared for the next decade. Let's get into it. Abe, welcome to the podcast. Would you like to introduce yourself?

Abe Eshkenazi: 1:35

Pleasure to join you, Tom. Currently with ASCM, the Association for Supply Chain Management. I'm sure most individuals have a keen understanding of supply chain. We help organisations and individuals not only respond to the demand signals and the supply challenges that we have, but ensure that patients and consumers get what they want when they want it, at a price that is convenient for them. Everything is supply chain today, so, let's dig into it.

Tom Raftery: 2:00

Yeah. Okay. And you're being a little modest when you say you're with ASCM, tell us your, your title and how long you've been there and what your role is. Come on.

Abe Eshkenazi: 2:10

Currently the CEO for ASCM. If we talk about supply chain years, it feels like I've been here a hundred years. Joined the organisation well before, supply chain was really understood in the marketplace. That was back in 2006. We've gone through so many transformations. It's hard to think that the same company that I joined back 20 years ago is the same company that we're looking at today. So much has changed Tom, not only in the recognition of supply chain, but the impact that it has on our communities that has on our economies has our environment. Today, supply chain is ubiquitous. It impacts everybody from kitchen tables to boardroom tables.

Tom Raftery: 2:46

And when you were a little kid in school, did you always want to get into supply chain?

Abe Eshkenazi: 2:51

I don't think most people had an idea, especially when I grew up, that supply chain was even a thing that you could go into. No. Mine was more on finance and consulting. That's my background having been a CPA, but a recovering CPA. They tend to tell history. I wanted to focus more on making history, and I think that's what really separates supply chain and a lot of the things that the supply chain professionals do is responding to the challenges and not only, informing their own organisation on how to do it more efficiently, but to ensure that we're doing it sustainably and in a way that ensures that we have a future to look forward to that doesn't destroy the planet, and that we have sustainable resources for the future.

Tom Raftery: 3:32

And you've led ASCM through major expansion and industry shifts. What what's changed most in supply chain leadership expectations over the last, let's say five years?

Abe Eshkenazi: 3:44

It it really interesting'cause I think it's the recognition of the supply chain professional as a strategic leader as opposed to a transactional focus for most organisations. We've seen the rise of the supply chain professional. Now, CSCO's, chief supply chain officers are almost embedded in almost every organisation. 10 years ago, that was not the case. More often than not they were that quiet activity behind the scenes, making sure that everything was running right. Today they're sitting at the boardroom table, they're sitting in front of, investors. They're sitting in front of politicians, and we're seeing that the elevation of supply chain has really, provided a recognition for the contribution that these individuals make. Further, we're seeing a transformation of the focus of supply chain from the transactional speed and cost to a much more sustainable, resilient, agile supply chain. The skills necessary today have transformed supply chain and the individuals coming into supply chain today. The AI automation, cybersecurity sustainability, these are all now hallmarks of sustainable supply chains and resilient supply chains. So the talent side coming in today, they understand supply chain. They may not understand the complexity, but they understand the need and the criticality of supply chain for organisations. We've attempted to mirror that as an organisation. Our focus was on the individual competency, capability, recognition, reward. It's transformed into, not only the individual, but the impact that the individual has on their company. So we thought our holy grail was Tom, that if we can, get everybody certified and competent and capable, that we've done our job. And then we realised, wait a second, if they don't contribute to organisational performance and success and sustainability, what have we done? So our merger with Supply Chain Council and bringing on a SCORE framework enabled us to not only represent the individual, but the organisation and the performance. The triple bottom line. And we thought that was the end of our journey, Tom. We can train everybody. and we can ensure that they're contributing to organisational performance, ensuring that they have career opportunities. We thought that was the end of our journey, and then we realised we had one more step. And that's the impact that supply chain has on our economy. It has on our ecology, has on our consumers, has on almost every aspect of our lives. And we've embraced that responsibility as an organisation that the focus of supply chain is not only on the individuals and the organisations, but on the consumers and the impact that they have on supply chain as well.

Tom Raftery: 6:13

Mm Indeed. And what would you say, what problem are supply chain leaders still underestimating today?

Abe Eshkenazi: 6:20

I'm not sure if they're underestimating it. I think it's the complexity that the disruption that we're facing today. It's at an unprecedented level. We've dealt with shock star system before, Tom. You and I have been around long enough to, to remember the ash cloud and, various disruptions and we've responded from those and we recovered from those. What we're seeing now is just the compounding of one disruption on top of another disruption, and it really did start with the pandemic, and it's gone now in terms of, border war wars. It's gone in terms of, scarcity of critical minerals. It's now, we're seeing reshoring and nearshoring as critical aspects of an organisation. We're seeing cross-functional war rooms right now. CSCO's, CFEO's, CSCO's, chief Supply Chain sustainability officers, chief compliance officers are now working and they need to work together, finance, legal, ops. They need to align their activities because the disruptions that we're facing right now are not single. They're not just logistics. It's not just a cost element. We're seeing it impact on, from port congestions to energy reliability, and carbon footprints, all of it now is embedded within supply chain and the criticality of these or the opportunity to improve an organisation through collaboration is never greater than it has been today. But as you, you and I have seen the disruptions today, they are causing significant challenges for organisations, not only in their planning horizons, but in terms of their optionality for their organisation.

Tom Raftery: 7:52

Yeah. And, and volatility as we're seeing now is not temporary. It's almost structural. And that changes how we think about sourcing, for example. So if volatility is policy driven now, how do export controls and industrial policy change sourcing decisions at a strategic level?

Abe Eshkenazi: 8:14

Yeah. Really interesting because, sourcing right now isn't just about finding that right partner and committing, long-term contracts We're seeing a very different environment right now. It's about designing optionality into the system from day one multi-tier supplier visibility. And this is one of the challenges that we had. And it exposed it during the pandemic, we did not have visibility into our extended supply chain Tom. More often than not, we knew who our tier one suppliers were, but as the further the supply chain moved down the road, the less visibility that we had. Now, you need to ensure there's no supply chain professional that can walk into the C-Suite and say, I don't know who or what is in my supply chain. So that's the good news. The bad news now, or the challenging news now, is that you now know who and what is in your supply chain, and now you need to make, significant decisions about should they be in your supply chain. Further, we're seeing scenario-based planning right now. This is not just a one-off activity, it is almost a daily activity in terms of how the environment has changed from policy to environmental, to financial signals. Organisations are now, challenged to not only develop scenarios, but scenarios for your scenarios, especially given the changes that we're seeing today. Further flexible contracts, cross-functional activities. We're looking for organisations that see agility as a strategic opportunity as opposed to a challenge or a disruption for their organisations. And so today, agile supply chains, it's ability to reconfigure their suppliers as well as their flows without disrupting and more often in advance of the impact that it has. Whereas resiliency, you've already achieved or you've already realised and been impacted by whatever challenge there is. And now how quickly can you respond? The agility part is identifying those issues in advance and then mitigating those prior to the impact that it has on the organisation. And this is where we're seeing organisations really lean into technology. AI, automation they're providing the necessary tools. But one of the challenges that we're seeing, Tom, is the investment in technology is not being managed with the investment in talent. And so we've got these significantly powerful technology systems without individuals having the critical thinking or problem solving skills to understand the data coming in or coming out. We need to ensure that we have capable, competent individuals that can leverage the technology investment that organisations are making.

Tom Raftery: 10:44

Sure, sure. Just on the suppliers is, is there a threshold where diversification of suppliers costs more than it protects?

Abe Eshkenazi: 10:55

Yeah, that, that's a really good question because historically we've designed for speed and cost. Those were hallmarks of supply chains. How quickly can you get it and how cheaply can you get it? Now you need to factor in the agility part, multi, tier suppliers. You need to do your, pre-qualified suppliers in case of, and so the tension right now between finance and supply chain is where we're seeing a lot of the impact of the current disruptions on agility. The CFO is going to push for short term, cash flow and lower inventory costs. Whereas our supply chain guys are looking for much, and women are looking for much more capabilities in terms of their inventories and flexibility and longer term capabilities to respond. And so we're seeing some strategic tension within organisations right now. Specifically because of the relationship between what the CFO's objectives are and the chief supply chain officer's objectives are right now. And again, we just did a study interestingly with the Institute of Management Accountants and some of the findings indicate that while we're aligned in the short term, we're much more unaligned or misaligned in the long term in terms of strategies right now, which isn't surprising, giving the focus of the CFO versus the CSCO in an organisation.

Tom Raftery: 12:11

And in that scenario, what about the Chief Sustainability Officer?'cause I mean, if you are going for things like regionalisation, are there scenarios where that increases emissions for example? Should leaders think about resilience versus decarbonisation trade-offs?

Abe Eshkenazi: 12:26

Interesting point because unfortunately sustainability has taken a little bit of a backseat over the past few months or, year in terms of the impact that it has on organisations. The focus for most of the organisations right now is on compliance. We've had opportunities to develop what would be, those strategic metrics or those key performance indicators on sustainability and our, our ability to, provide, what the consumers and the patients need without disrupting our planet. Unfortunately we've sort of missed the mark on this. Tom. We had an opportunity as either industries or as associations to start to develop some of those metrics. Right now most of it is compliance. It is policy or regulatory. And more often than not, what we've seen in the past is compliance tends to be minimum checklists. And that's what we're seeing a little bit right now. I don't think organisations are pulling back on their sustainability objectives. It's just not as forward or as front as we're seeing it in the past.

Tom Raftery: 13:26

It's dropped down the priority list.

Abe Eshkenazi: 13:27

Yeah.

Tom Raftery: 13:30

Great. And if we think about, sourcing what changes inside a company when sourcing becomes dynamic or agile?

Abe Eshkenazi: 13:42

First I think We're seeing the digital platforms that organisations are investing in. So a much greater reliance on, the technology. But the increased reliance on AI in the decision making is really transforming organisations in there in terms of the demand forecasting, optimising inventory, and doing the things necessary for overall operational efficiency for organisations. What we're challenged with though is that this is an iterative process. It's not a static environment today, and so it is data driven, it's cross-functional. In some respects, that Chief Sustainability Officer used to be like the Chief Supply Chain Officer 10 to 15 years ago, Tom, when you couldn't find them. Now we're seeing a little bit more investment in Chief Sustainability Officers in organisations to work with your Chief Supply Chain Officer and your Chief Compliance Officer. But I think we're seeing much more focus on the CFO and the CSCO right now. Sustainability as you and I just, discussed has taken a little bit of a backseat in terms of, where the disruptions are, the focus of the disruptions are right now. Most of it is on financial signals. Supplier risk sovereign, supply chains. We're seeing disruption in terms of what is in our national interest versus what is in our national security for other organisations or other countries. And that is having an impact not only on the decision criteria, but on planning. And I think this is where we're seeing the greatest impact for organisations right now, is their planning horizons have shrunk. And sustainability is not a short-term planning horizon. It's a long-term planning horizon. It's extremely difficult in today's environment to plan where, if your plans were, 12 to 18 months before, they shrunk cons considerably because of tariffs, because of the geopolitical , environment that we're facing because of the financial signals instability for certain countries. But when you take a look at in terms of the capability of organisations or countries, to identify what is in our national interest in our national security, we start to see it break down a little bit of the global nature of supply chain. It now becomes much more regionalised, it becomes much more friend shoring. We're looking for ways to mitigate the disruption, in the future. And organisations right now are starting to focus in on the short term, not knowing what their long-term impact or, the environment is gonna look like. Let's take an example today. If you want to develop a manufacturing facility that costs two to $3 billion. It's a hard ask for a CEO or a CFO to go into the boardroom and say, you know what? It's gonna be two to $3 billion. It's gonna take two to three years to get online. I don't know what my sourcing strategy is going to be. I don't know what my pricing strategy is going to be, or my sustainability footprint, but let's invest it on the if come. That's a hard argument to make right now for a lot of organisations without clear indications of what tariff policy is going to be, what environmental policy is going to be, some consistency would go a long way in identifying those critical decision points for organisations so that they can invest appropriately.

Tom Raftery: 16:49

And previously we've, talked about this, Abe, that the prioritisation of sustainability in organisations helps bring down the cost of recruitment and retention for organisations and helps bring down the cost of customer acquisition and retention for organisations. The fact that it's now being, I don't wanna say deprioritised, but as I said earlier, kind of dropping down the, the list of priorities. Is that having any noticeable impact on the likes of recruitment and retention or customer acquisition?

Abe Eshkenazi: 17:18

It's interesting. We just did a study with Gartner on sustainability and the imperative of sustainability within an organisation. And we found that when it is embedded in the priorities of the organisation, it's not an and. It's part of every strategic priority that you have in the organisation. And more importantly, when it's controlled or driven by the supply chain function in an organisation, we tend to see much more, impact not only on employee retention. But on impact on meeting your objectives for the organisation. All right, so what does that tell us? First supply chain professionals are doers. When you give 'em a task, they get it done. Secondly, it's embedded in the priorities of the organisation. So it's coming from the strategic imperative of an organisation. It's not coming from the bottom up. It is coming from the board. It is coming from the leadership of the organisation that we have to ensure that sustainability is embedded in our metrics and in our operations. Then it is drilled down and then it's carried through through the supply chain, and this is where we found a much more stickiness for organisations when it is embedded and it is mandated through the supply chain function. Again, we tend to see much more alignment when it is aligned with their strategic priorities as opposed to a this is something that you need to do in addition to your primary responsibilities. And so first, embedding sustainability imperatives within an individual's priorities, I think goes a long way in ensuring that you do have follow through. And then secondly, reporting on it. And I think this is where we've seen a little bit of a pullback on the reporting on sustainability initiatives. Again, I don't think companies are pulling back, it's just not being as reported as publicly as we had seen in the past.

Tom Raftery: 19:05

Sure. Yep, yep. coming back, Abe, to the topic of agility, where are you seeing, or are you seeing agile sourcing, materially reducing downtime?

Abe Eshkenazi: 19:17

I think you're seeing there's a number of, the ways that organisations are doing it. I mean, we've seen, with Amazon and Proctor and Gamble, in terms of using AI to predict inventory needs and optimise their supply chains. But you need to start to integrate AI and the visibility that we talked about before with traceability and real time insights for organisations for decision making. That's what really enables organisations to leverage the technology and the investment that they're making right now. But we've seen a focus on agile sourcing, on reconfiguring their suppliers on, flexible contracts especially on the tariffs. We're seeing that tariff escalators within contracts right now that if tariffs change, we have the responsibility and the opportunity to renegotiate. Before it was, fixed contract costs. And that's what led us. We know what our pricing was going to be. Now we don't know, or it's changing. And the uncertainty today is causing a lot of that challenge for organisations. Further, agility is a repeatable model. It's not a one-off response. This is something that you do almost every day. It is data driven. It is cross-functional as you and I talked about in terms of getting your sustainability officer, your CFO, your Chief Compliance Officer. And I think that's one of the areas that we probably need to pay a little bit more attention to is the compliance and cybersecurity. Tom. We talked before about the visibility that we did not have in terms of our extended supply chains. Well, organisations have fixed that problem by connecting everybody in our supply chain. So we're now, now digitally connected. Your small and medium size suppliers generally don't have the same security protocols or the same resources that the large, tier one suppliers do. And More often than not, when we're seeing cybersecurity and ransomware attacks, it is coming through your extended supply chain. And so while we've embedded technology throughout supply chain, we've now increased our risk profile because of the technology footprint that we have right now. You can't do it without it, but you need to ensure that you have the appropriate protocols throughout your extended supply chain. More often than not, it is a function of working within the priorities or the, the leaders of your organisation. It's strategic. It is not opportunistic. Agility is something that differentiates a company. Interesting point, the pandemic, when it first hit us back in 20 we did a research study with The Economist on agility and resiliency, and there was a fundamental question, do you want to go back to where you were prior to the pandemic or do you believe that you are never going back? And It was even 50 50 split. Tom, 50% said, get me back to where I was. 50% said we're never going back. We are going to fundamentally change how we operate as an organisation. And that, I think is a clear indication of where leadership steps in in an organisation and ensuring that you do have the ability to respond to the challenges. I think those organisations that said, get me back to where I was, are probably wishing that they had more focus on get me, to the new operating model and where we can respond appropriately.

Tom Raftery: 22:20

Yeah. Yeah, no doubt. No doubt. And what skills would you say matter most in a world of like policy driven volatility?

Abe Eshkenazi: 22:28

I, I think there's a number of challenges that we've seen right now with the talent side, and it is, it's interesting, and it's almost generational, Tom. But years in my generation, we did not grow up in a technology environment. It was thrust upon us, some of us embraced it, some of us continue to push back and use the Excel spreadsheets that are still in in our core resources. I think we're looking at a very different environment where the individuals coming into the workforce right now are digital natives. They are more than comfortable with the technology that is provided for them, and more often than not, they will trust the technology blindly. And I think that's a challenge that we have right now, in terms of the capability of individuals to critically think and evaluate or problem solve the information prior to accepting the data coming in. So first, I think we have a mentoring opportunity for individuals coming into the workforce on real world experience, on problem solving, on critical thinking. I also think we have a reverse mentoring opportunity for those individuals coming in for you and I to trust the technology to rely on more on that integrated technology. And so I think as we evaluate the talent side, there's an opportunity for us grey hairs to learn a little bit more on how to leverage technology and some of the digital natives that are coming in to understand the experience and the heuristics and the problem solving that individuals have and they can blend those two together, that's a winning formula.

Tom Raftery: 23:57

Sure, and and should the likes of AI simulation literacy be baseline for sourcing leaders?

Abe Eshkenazi: 24:04

I would say that if you are not using AI right now, you're probably significantly behind the curve. Most organisations are increasing their reliance on AI decision. Just from the data side itself, the volume of data that is available to us right now and optimising that information so that you can have relevant, timely, accurate information, I think is key for a lot of organisations The investment in technology right now is dwarfing almost any other investment in the supply chain right now, but it's the integration of the digital platforms. It's not just the investment. So you're looking at AI, you're taking a look at automation, cybersecurity, robotics, sustainability matched with talent that can understand those, technology platforms and putting them together. And I think that's a winning formula for a lot of organisations is that, agility and that, using AI to not only move away from that we're in a crisis mode into operational activity, irrespective of the impact on either environmental or existential or any disruption. I think we're seeing that technology with a talent pool that can critically evaluate the issues I think it's much more responsive to and much more resilient to the challenges that all of us are facing or our companies are facing almost on a daily basis today.

Tom Raftery: 25:28

And what do you think resilient supply chains of 2030 will look like?

Abe Eshkenazi: 25:34

That's a really. Interesting question to, to take a look four to five years in advance. If you had asked me five years ago, would we be in this environment today? I I'm not sure that I'd have a pretty good indicator of what that is. I, I think as much as we focused on the past generation on speed and cost I think the focus right now is on beyond, just the efficiency aspect of supply chains. I'm seeing a much more focus on long-term sustainability. And I'm hopeful that when we get to 2030, that our focus is on the long term, that we have much more certainty about our pricing and about our sourcing and about our partners in the marketplace Right now, global supply chains are under a tremendous amount of stress, and we're seeing a lot of focus on regionalisation or nearshoring, or friend shoring. I'm hopeful that we start to focus a little bit more on the long term leadership imperatives, risk tolerance embedding your supplier strategy inside your sustainability strategy, technology investments that provide realtime visibility without increasing your cybersecurity or your, risk profile for organisations. As we've seen right now, we're seeing that, agility provides you greater visibility, much much earlier in the process so that you can make the appropriate decisions. Decisions are required much faster today than they ever were. We don't have the luxury of time to say, all right, let's see how this plays out. We're seeing much more deliberate changes in the short term. Today in a world of export controls, climate volatility and industrial policy shifts. Agility now is the competitive advantage. It's no longer a, a nice to have or a contingency plan. It is part and parcel of every organisation's long-term sustainability.

Tom Raftery: 27:28

And do you think resilience will be a board level KPI?

Abe Eshkenazi: 27:33

It's interesting because resilience tends to take a look at what is our risk profile for the organisation in terms of how do we respond to these challenges. My hope is that agility and resilience are now married within the organisation's priorities and their strategic initiatives and their metrics right now. It's not one or the other. You need both because you can't predict every disruption that you have. I'm not sure how many AI models would've had the Red Sea attacks in disrupting that logistics through fair. You can't predict everything that, could possibly happen for organisations. So that blend of resiliency, that ability to respond to the shocks and the agility to have the flexibility to take advantage of those shocks in the system, I think are now board level issues.

Tom Raftery: 28:22

I wanna do a quick lightning round now of three or four questions with for yourself, one sentence answers. Are you up for that? Okay. So if you had to choose, improve your demand forecasts or invest in running more, what if simulations for disruption?

Abe Eshkenazi: 29:22

Demand. Definitely if I can get a handle on demand, I know how to sequence my supply appropriately. Even with the variability in demand, if I can get a clear demand signal, it's much easier for me to align my supply side

Tom Raftery: 29:35

Okay, move production closer to home or keep a globally diversified supplier base?

Abe Eshkenazi: 29:42

Near shoring, friend shoring, regionalisation. I think we're seeing almost every aspect of it, and I think it's going to depend on the product or the industry that you're in. There are certain industries that we have determined that are in our national interest and our national security TSMC, electric vehicle batteries, semiconductors, we believe those are in our national interest and I think we're seeing a, compliance and or regulatory policy consistent with those Chips Act, we're seeing investment. And so, I think there's a, a short term, focus on this, but our focus is much more on the long term impact on regionalisation and on the global supply chain. It is under a tremendous amount of stress right now.

Tom Raftery: 30:30

Short answer, it depends. Okay. And build extra inventory or invest in better real time visibility systems?

Abe Eshkenazi: 30:39

Real time visibility systems. The CFO in me will still push back on the inventory.

Tom Raftery: 30:45

Okay, and let AI automatically switch suppliers during a disruption or require human approval every time?

Abe Eshkenazi: 30:52

I would say that, that you should have some element of human touch in the decision criteria as well as in the, at every aspect of it. We can train these systems, but ultimately it is who's training it and to what parameters are you putting in there? I'd like to see the human touch, the individual still be a critical part of decision criteria.

Tom Raftery: 31:15

Right. I had a guest on recently, and his answer to that, well, it wasn't quite that question, but his answer was, if the AI messes up, who do you blame?

Abe Eshkenazi: 31:23

Yeah, Exactly.

Tom Raftery: 31:26

Optimise for lowest total cost, or fastest recovery after a shock?

Abe Eshkenazi: 31:30

If you optimise for total cost and then identify your, the alternatives that you have, I think that would probably be a winning formula. But changing your suppliers, changing your strategy. It's going to take a lot to respond to those. Any change in either one of those scenarios.

Tom Raftery: 31:49

All right, and deep partnerships with a few key suppliers, or flexibility with many interchangeable ones?

Abe Eshkenazi: 31:55

Flexibility especially in today's environment today what you plan for is going to change and oftentimes it's better not to pick up the news to see what has changed that day, so it doesn't force you to respond, to knee-jerk as opposed to long-term strategy.

Tom Raftery: 32:12

Fair enough, fair enough. And a left field question for you, Abe. you could have any person or character, alive or dead, or fictional as a champion for agile supply chains, who would it be and why?

Abe Eshkenazi: 32:30

One individual. I, I, I'm not sure I pick one individual, but I, I, I think I pick a supply chain professional. That individual, the competency and the capability to understand the complexity within an organisation. Only two functions in the company have to know everything that goes on in there Tom, The finance, the CFO and your supply chain professional. They have to know everything that goes on in an organisation. I pick the supply chain professional to get things done.

Tom Raftery: 32:59

Okay, brilliant. We're coming towards the end of the podcast now, Abe. Is there any question I didn't ask that you wish I did or any aspect of this we haven't touched on that you think it's important for people to be aware of?

Abe Eshkenazi: 33:11

I think the, one of the areas that, that we focused on as an organisation and credit to our board of directors is a focus on the consumer and we did this through a documentary that we just published. It's available on Amazon Prime, a six part documentary on supply chain. What it does is it traces in each of the episodes, four products all the way from raw materials to use and to end of life in terms of what happens to it. But it's not focused on the supply chain professional. It's focused on the consumer to help them understand the impact that they have on our supply chains, and more importantly, the decisions that each one of us has every day, in terms of what we buy. We ask some fundamental questions in the documentary, and we want individuals to ask these same fundamental questions. First, where did this product come from? How was it made? How long did it take to get here? And how did it get here? What happens to it after I'm done? And I think these are critical questions that almost every individual would like to have answers for. And the documentary in the six parts provides that insight in terms of the supply chain. I think most individuals understand supply chain in terms of scarcity. Either it's on the shelf or it's not on. What we've attempted to do was provide them some insight in terms of how complex supply chains work, but more importantly, the impact that we have every day on our purchasing, the signals that sends. So if we're buying products that aren't sustainable, that are low cost and that have environmental impact, companies are gonna make products that have low cost, environmental impact because they're gonna meet demand. If we demand as consumers sustainable, ethical, resource products, raw materials that aren't, scarce, companies will respond appropriately. They respond to the demand signals, and I think this is what we've done. Hopefully with the documentary will start to show some of the information, or some of the impact that consumers have on our supply chains. We don't design supply chain Tom in a backroom and force it on the industry or on the consumers. Consumers determine what they buy, where they buy it, how much they spend for it. Companies respond to those demand signals. What we wanted to do through the documentary was reflect to them the impact that those decisions may have on supply chains and have on our lives. It is really interesting when you start to break down some of the activities and provide that information to people. More and more we're seeing a request for transparent supply chain and transparency. This provides some insight in terms of what organisations and what supply chains respond to and how complex they are. This was a journey for us in terms of supply chain, of making it real for everybody.

Tom Raftery: 35:59

And what's the documentary called Abe?

Abe Eshkenazi: 36:01

It is called The Chain and it's available on Amazon Prime. There are six episodes that focus on transportation, EV batteries, they focus on food scarcity, on apparel, on healthcare and on sports. And so these specific programmes, each one of them traces four products from origin all the way to recycle, reuse, and waste. Our focus is literally on informing individuals on the impact that supply chain has on almost every aspect of our lives.

Tom Raftery: 36:30

Fantastic. Great. So we'll finally be able to explain to our loved ones what it is we do every day in supply chain. Great. Abe, that's been really interesting. If people would like to know more about yourself or any of the things that we discussed on the podcast today, where would you have me direct them?

Abe Eshkenazi: 36:46

I can see at ascm.org or just search The Chain on Amazon Prime and you'll see the documentary there. But again the best way is to reach us is through ascm.org. Any of my team members will be happy to support or respond to any questions that you may have.

Tom Raftery: 37:02

Fantastic Abe, that's been really interesting. Thanks a million for coming on the podcast today.

Abe Eshkenazi: 37:06

All the best, Tom. Thanks again.