Sunny @VeChain: 0:03

In the next five years with blockchain as infrastructure and token, as kinda like a blood in the entire ecosystem, economic blood. And the AI is more like engines everywhere to enable more activities, more actions. And I think it's like a mandatory tool for the sustainability global rollouts.

Tom Raftery: 0:29

Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, wherever you are in the world. Welcome to episode 99 of the Resilient Supply Chain Podcast. I'm your host, Tom Raftery. When people hear the word blockchain, many still think speculation, hype cycles or eye watering energy use. But strip all that noise away. And there's a more interesting question underneath it. What if blockchain isn't about coins at all, but about trust verification and changing behavior at scale? And what if it could be used to make sustainability measurable, actionable, and economically meaningful across supply chains, not just reported after the fact? Because one of the hardest problems in supply chain sustainability isn't ambition. It's alignment. Getting suppliers, brands, customers and individuals all pulling in the same direction with data they can trust and incentives that actually change decisions on the ground To explore that, I'm joined today by Sunny Lu, founder and CEO of VeChain. Sonny has been working in blockchain since long before it was fashionable, starting with enterprise traceability projects at Louis Vuitton and going on to build VeChain as a platform focused on real world adoption. In this episode, we talk about using blockchain to verify sustainability actions, incentivise better behavior through tokens and gamification, and why demand not technology is often the real bottleneck holding sustainable supply chains back. And just a quick reminder, if you want full access to all 450 plus past episodes of this podcast with supply chain leaders shaping the future of resilience, plus a direct line to me for ideas, guests, and new directions. You'll find the Resilient Supply Chain Plus subscribe link in the show notes. Now Sunny. Welcome to the podcast. Would you like to introduce yourself?

Sunny @VeChain: 2:36

yeah, my pleasure, Tom. Very nice to be here. My name is Sonny, I'm a founder, and the CEO of v Chan. V chan is a layer one blockchain platform since forever. We started in 2015 and focus on sustainability, enterprise adoption from the beginning. And lately in starting from 2023, we upgrade our strategy to focus on the sustainability angles and, try to use the Web3 technology motivate every individual to do positive actions creating the positive impacts on a daily basis. So yeah, very glad to be here.

Tom Raftery: 3:17

And what's your genesis story, Sunny? How did you get into blockchain? What made you decide to up

Sunny @VeChain: 3:24

Oh actually it was long time ago. I was actually looking working uh, Louis Vuitton as a Chief Information Officer. And basically my job was, building up the bridge between business use cases and the technology solutions. And in thousand 12, 13, roughly time very occasional opportunity about Bitcoin. The curiosity is kind of in my DNA. So from the first side, I, I feel in love with this kind of the technology. And then start to learn more and more things about Bitcoin per se. I go to the Bitcoin talk the org to check every conversations, read about the white paper, even read about the codes itself. It's very linked, very impressive codes from the beginning. And then I'm engineer, right? So I always have the mentality to try to solve the problem. I'm fascinated about the technology itself. Just think about, okay. What kind of a problem, what kind of the business use case can be addressed by this amazing technology? And in 2014 15, my last global project in Louis Vuitton is actually track and trace. Uh, we build up the track and trace project across the whole Louis Vuitton global, covering manufacturings warehouse, disputer center, and even the stores linked to even eventually lead to the after service to the customers. So whole lifecycle of the products. So I'm, start to think about like, okay, what about if I replace database by the blockchain technology with a unique feature like immutability, transparency, more collaborative to multiple players? That could be interesting. So that's the original idea. And next thing you know resign from Louis Vuitton and then create the VeChain. So by the way, VeChain short for verification blockchain. I was a startup, right? So basically I just go to the GoDaddy and I try to look for any kind of available domain names, and I start with v a single letter VChain, okay taken. And then start with two letters, VE and chain. Oh, $3 available. Okay, fine. I take it. So that's, that's how I get started.

Tom Raftery: 5:45

Okay. I have to say I, I thought the V, the VE in VeChain, I thought that was from positive rather than from verify, but okay. I

Sunny @VeChain: 5:54

Oh, I, yeah, I'm an engineer, so I, you know, my thoughts is very direct, very straightforward. I do something for verification. Let's do a verification blockchain.

Tom Raftery: 6:05

Okay. Nice, nice. And setting up VeChain in 2015, was there a particular problem you were trying to solve or did you just wanna start a blockchain company?

Sunny @VeChain: 6:15

Well, firstly, I, I wanna start a blockchain company and also with a, with a very unique mission. Let's say I believe the blockchain technology or nowadays we talk about as a Web3, you know, not only about a blockchain, but also including other emerging technologies.

Tom Raftery: 6:33

True.

Sunny @VeChain: 6:33

believe that that step of the new technology gonna reinvent the world. Again, it's just like internet. Did you know? 30, 40 years ago. And I always believe the technology. We're not only just, you know, for coins or for, you know, very limited use cases. It should be vast. It should be like opportunity for every industry, every sectors, and every time. Think about to use a blockchain in different areas. Show the big picture about the future. I get super excited about that. So from the beginning I, let's say, to answer your question, I would say it's yes and no.

Tom Raftery: 7:14

Okay.

Sunny @VeChain: 7:15

The yes is I do have a specific use case my last project in, Louis Vuitton was track and trace. Right? And I try to, let's say, okay, with the blockchain that might introduce some new features, new functionalities, and eventually leading to new possibilities. But also know on the other side, and I believe blockchain can, be everywhere. So I, I do have the, original mission, which we never changed after 10 years. It's, we wanted to bridge this technology to the real world and massive adoption is always a scene for whatever we do.

Tom Raftery: 7:53

And people still hear blockchain and they think speculation, or they think massive energy use. Why should supply chain and sustainability leaders care?

Sunny @VeChain: 8:07

Honestly, for every new technology always like that. Remember the internet bubbles in the early 2000, right? They were like 99% of dotcom company falling apart during the bubble. So I would say every technology going through the similar pattern, similar historical stages no strange or no different for the blockchain technology. But if you look at the fundamental features transparency, decentralised immutability for the data, it's kind of like designed for the new type of collaboration. I would say in terms of supply chain, first it kind of enable a new way to collaborate each other. So you don't need to like trust a single entity and connecting to a centralised system, but more like you can easily collaborating with the data exchange. You can trust each other because the data verified by the blockchain simply to say. And sustainability on the other angle serving as the next level. Actually following our logic, think about like how we gonna upgrade from supply chain use case to sustainability. We actually just think about, okay, we already onboard some of the enterprise, some of the supply chains, on the blockchain and what the extra value coming from the data on the blockchain, right? With like the, the new type of value discovery or new the new value coming from the unique feature. All the data on the blockchain with the transparency with, you know, nobody can change that and trustworthy. And we come up with a sustainability because it's the biggest consensus of the humankind and it requires everyone's effort. So that linked to the decentralisation, it cannot be a single mission or centralised mission for one country and one enterprise. It requires everyone's joint effort. So in general, we talk about the internet and even today's AI, I would've call that kind of the technology for productivity, right? You make the productivity rock to the roof. But the blockchain, it redefined the relationship among all of the participants, all of the players whatever you are individual to a company, or company to a government, or a country to a country. So you redefine the whole relationship. That's what we called blockchain technology is a technology for new relationship. That's why, you know, I, I believe supply chain was the first step to onboarding the enterprise, migrating some business cases and processes on the blockchain and sustainability considered as a low hanging fruits to unite individuals and enterprise, even the governments associations together to do, under the same passion, same belief, and to achieve some big mission.

Tom Raftery: 11:12

Let's look at what this looks like in practice.

Sunny @VeChain: 11:17

Mm-hmm.

Tom Raftery: 11:18

How is VeChain helping supply chains become more sustainable?

Sunny @VeChain: 11:26

Let's say actually the idea about sustainability is coming from some of the use cases we have been doing since 2017, 18, 19. In the second stage of VeChain around the 2019 we had a focus on enterprise adoptions, right? We build the different type of supply chain type use cases, for example, like, for sustainability management for at and m receive project for ocean cleanup. The carbon credits for BYD, food safety for Walmart, China. And we summarise out of almost more than a hundred different use cases. Firstly, there is a common spot in terms of the enterprise needs is sustainability, and second is, the most of the closing or promising use cases try to enable the new relationship between enterprise and individual customers or users is a sustainability mission. So, basically we wanted to, let's say, enable a new ecosystem to allow enterprise and individuals can work together. For example, like we have a, very interesting use cases called EVN. Basically try to incentivise user to use electricity vehicle other than the fossil cars. Right. Very, very direct message, direct narrative. And we finished up the integration with Tesla. And basically people can log in the EVM with Tesla comes and then, every time you charge your car, based on your charging capacity from the APIs of the Tesla system and the smart contract will verify that and it give you the rewards right away. Very simple, right? And then think about the next step. Next step is, okay, we're serving, let's say few thousands of cars, Tesla cars, and we're expanding to other brands. But what about if we start to serve a million cars, or 5 million cars and 10 million cars, and how much carbon footprints can be collected from this type of the use cases. Right. And also going further, whoever needs to tracking the carbon footprints, whatever is from enterprise or from individual users can go through the same logic. So we basically can base on every activity among or inside of the supply chain or life cycle of the products and make every actions to be verified and calculated and getting the smart contract to incentivise everybody, go more, sustainable way. It kind of make the entire supply chain from the big picture to be more sustainable. And also all of the data coming from this platform can be making a better prediction about, who needs what or how to optimise the resource. So basically from the two angles can address that.

Tom Raftery: 14:45

Okay, lemme just approach this from a personal perspective.

Sunny @VeChain: 14:50

Mm-hmm.

Tom Raftery: 14:51

I drive an EV

Sunny @VeChain: 14:52

Mm-hmm.

Tom Raftery: 14:53

and I have a five kilowatt solar array on my roof.

Sunny @VeChain: 14:58

Mm-hmm.

Tom Raftery: 15:00

My EV is not a Tesla, but today the benefits I get from that, apart from feeling good about, you know, not contaminating, is my EV is a lot cheaper to charge than it would be having to fill a car with petrol or diesel.

Sunny @VeChain: 15:19

Mm-hmm.

Tom Raftery: 15:19

my electricity is a lot cheaper because a lot of it's coming from the solar panels on my roof and I use electricity for everything at home. You know, I don't have any gas connection. It's electricity for heating and cooling, electricity for cooking, et cetera, et cetera. So everything is electric and I have solar panels. But you're saying that with VeChain, if I were using particular providers like Tesla for the EV, I don't know, maybe you do something with solar panels as well. I could be getting even more rewards of some kind for my positive behavior.

Sunny @VeChain: 15:59

That's our angle actually the, the current ecosystem we're building is called VeBetter.com. You know, already have 45 different applications. EVR, just one of the examples. And also the reason we start with Tesla actually is from the technical perspective, because Tesla provide quite a profound interfaces to allow the external developer to build the applications to connect into them. Sure, you need to get authorised by the Tesla, but they're quite open-minded, let's put this way, or the infrastructure is much better than the others in the EV integrations, but we are working on the expansion with other EVs and just giving a few months, your EV brands may be supported by this application as well. So that's, that's exactly the, the logic behind the whole idea is to incentivise people or motivate people with actual rewards to make the better choice or do better actions on a daily basis. And eventually it becomes like a user behavior. And again, by time with more and more user growth, it becomes the new market needs. Like, if more people are like, oh, I want an EV. You know, I, I wanna using the electricity vehicle, I wanna use a solar panel then that will increase the demands of the market and eventually leading to the renovation from whatever the supply chain or even the manufacturing, right? All of the manufacturers actually based on the marketing needs. But right now I think the biggest challenge to sustainability is the skill is not big enough for any kind of recycled products or sustainable products. And as a matter of fact, most of the time, your case may be, it's not even an exception. Let's say how much you pay for your EV usually you feel like is higher or more expensive than the normal fossil car. Right. It's actually linked to the, demands of the market. But, you know, I, I give you another example, Tesla, in Europe, I have a Model 3 in Milan, I bought it and it cost me 65,000 Europe

Tom Raftery: 18:16

Wow.

Sunny @VeChain: 18:17

For a Model 3, right? It's pretty expensive, honestly. But the same car in China, same car is costing $30,000. Roughly I mean in terms of the RNB. Why? Because the Shanghai Gigaplant can produce one million cars per year, and while the Gigaplant in Germany I don't know, maybe 250 or 300,000 per year. That's what we call marginal cost. So, if bigger markets bigger demands from the market, that means lower marginal cost, for those manufacturers.

Tom Raftery: 18:52

Yeah.

Sunny @VeChain: 18:53

what we try to do for real is to increase the demands from individuals. Let's say every time I drink coffee, I use this, I don't use disposable cup. And every time I clean up the garbage or I refuse to use the plastic bags. So that will eventually drive to be a real market demands like, okay, we don't need to produce plastic for those kind of the bags and everything, even it's very effective. It's, convenient. But if no one use, why would I produce?

Tom Raftery: 19:24

Yeah.

Sunny @VeChain: 19:25

So, that's, that's actually the challenge I would say the major challenge in the sustainability world.

Tom Raftery: 19:32

Okay. What kind of rewards are we talking about?

Sunny @VeChain: 19:35

it's in the formal rewards it's token. We call it B three TR. It's called Better Token. And now, let's say for people receive the better token. Either you can go liquidate in the exchanges in Dex or you can top it to a credit card. And with our partners, you can pay for everything you want. So imagine you go to Tesla, charge your car, and you receive 10, $10,$15 as a rewards by charging your car. And next thing you go to Starbucks. And buy a coffee with this credit card, with the token you earned and also with this kind of recycled mug, and you can get another reward. So basically we kind of using this repeated pattern to motivate user and eventually grow the real habits other than just education, promotion. We just talked about it before this podcast about the Dana White, right? And Dana the first impression coming from Dana is he's telling me like, yeah, I don't like sustainability. You know, it's greenwashed, it's basically like, just, there's a narrative. Try to make some big enterprise, making extra profits or something like that, and the people had to pay extra to be sustainable. Right. But after I explained my ideas and tried to, you know, bottom up strategy, getting individual to be motivated and eventually driving the market in the right direction, he loved that. In Nashville, I would say he's not as most of people think, like against the sustainability, he's just against the way of doing sustainability in the, in the previous world. He more drive for impacts, drive for, actions. He's a more actionable guy. So as a matter of fact, as I shared with you in May, he came to, he came to our event with full ocean.com. Full Ocean is a company as our partner to clean up the ocean for good. Right. And he came for four hours. Dana white, a billionaire came for four hours. It was crazy. Everybody thought Dana is just come over, take a photo, make a pose, maybe say something according to actions and that's it. But we were in the jungle for a couple hours, pick up the 20 pounds garbage from the island by everyone including Dana White. That's a good example to showing like how to use technology to motivate people to, grow a nice habit and eventually drive the big collective accumulative impacts.

Tom Raftery: 22:18

Okay. And I mean, tokens and rewards are great. Do you have some kind of a gamification built into it as well, or is it just that the rewards.

Sunny @VeChain: 22:25

Ah, yeah, for sure. Every application have a different type of the gamification. Something could be like you can doing the mugshot in a streak, try to win a big prize for like 30 days in a consecutive order, or you know, you can have a lucky drawer for some of that actions usually make it a one token, but Lucky Joe could boost up to be 20, 50 token. Yeah, there, there's gamification everywhere for, for each application. Basically we, we are the platform, right? So we run the ecosystem, we run the governance. But we let every X two N application inside of the VeBetter ecosystem to play their own game.

Tom Raftery: 23:07

Okay. And do you think tokens and gamification work better than awareness campaigns?

Sunny @VeChain: 23:13

I think so. I think so. Firstly, when we talk about the crypto users usually they're young. They like to have fun, they're not like stereotype professionals or old school. They like to be challenged. They like to explore the new things. So a gamification definitely attracted them. And also when we think about the young generation, they're, born from the internet. I give an example, my daughter tapped the TV screen when she was three years old. She was like, oh dad, it doesn't work. It doesn't work because she already get used to the iPad. That kind of stuff. That's a new generation. And also token, it kind of eliminated the barriers. And, even for like a fractional rewards, it can be done very easily, and it's verified by the AI agent. It's simply, it's a machine to verify your actions, right? And also there is no barriers like, oh, you are, you're from Europe, or someone from Singapore, or someone from, Philadelphia, someone from Nigeria. It doesn't matter. The token just go directly and with zero, almost zero cost, like very small cost. And I think that's the better feature of the blockchain of crypto. You kind of, let's say instantly you are able to go outreaching everyone in the world and, align everybody to do the same thing. I think it's much more effective than the traditional way.

Tom Raftery: 24:43

Okay, you've, you've mentioned Tesla obviously, but you've also worked with other companies like Walmart China, BMW, San Marino. Any particular results from working with them that stand out?

Sunny @VeChain: 24:57

I would say most of the cases are still, running. But you know, the enterprise is not like a crypto world is like evolving like super fast. The first implementation for Walmart, for example, it was starting from 2019 and until today they're still running. And actually our community is following the online transaction volume of, Walmart saying like, oh are they still working or are they still generating actually they're still running and expanding to cover more products simply to say, they're very happy about the results so far. You know, they're generating much more productivity for that type of the collaboration because that platform is not only for Walmart, itself, but also for the suppliers. So.

Tom Raftery: 25:44

Right.

Sunny @VeChain: 25:46

When you have, especially about a food, it's coming from the different type of suppliers, right? Everybody has a seamless collaboration because the data gonna go to this platform, verify the blockchain, stored by the blockchain for the trust. I, I still remember when we launched the platform, the research department made announcement based, you know, as a result of this platform, they said one of the results is enable the problematic food tracking from 18 hours to 10 seconds. Because of that, because you, you, you, you don't need to go back and try to verify this, verify that. You can basically to see like all of the lines of the data and just to see like, okay, what the problem could be from right. And instantly you can find the, problem for this problematic food and eventually also guarantee the food safety for the users.

Tom Raftery: 26:47

Hmm. Nice.

Sunny @VeChain: 26:48

So, yeah, they're still still running that actually we recently, we're still continuing to onboard more brands, I would say they will be also a sports brands is coming on board. They have been using the platform for quite a while, but they also focus on the sustainability angle and try to use their material, which is sustainable, recycled, and also wanted to, let's say share and engage with the users, with the customers.

Tom Raftery: 27:15

And in your white paper you talk about a blockchain biosphere for sustainability. What does that look like in action?

Sunny @VeChain: 27:24

That's exactly what I just described. You know, I believe the, the Web3 can really unite, connect the individuals and to do let's say to make the world a better place with whatever enterprise and government together. It's just a different roles, different people or different party playing the different roles. So the Web 3, Better for Better is a narrative, is a theoretic paper, but realised by the vebetter.com. So vebetter.com is a ecosystem or platform enable different type of builder, whatever is coming from enterprise or coming from individual developers to build a different type of applications incentivise people to do X, y, z actions, right? Like I mentioned, the mug shot is incentivise people to do coffee without any disposable cup. And EVR is incentivise people to choose electricity vehicle other than the fossil cars. And even there are some interesting applications, like, my daughter using one of the application is a Scoop Up. Scoop Up means when you walk the dog, you pick up the dog poops

Tom Raftery: 28:41

Right,

Sunny @VeChain: 28:42

and you take a photo, verify that you get some rewards. Keep the, world a clean place. That's actually, you ask about the gamification part and, people like that. My daughter really enjoyed that. So in, in general speaking you know, so far we have been running for 15 months ish, and there will be almost 5 million users, 4.95, something like that, 5 million users, and generating more than 36 million actions from all of the different apps. And also as a results, I, I give you some numbers the plastic reduction, it's about almost 200,000 kilograms and 7 million watts energy saved, 9 million liter water saved. And also like, carbon reduction is more than 5 million tons carbon footprints in the last 15 months. It's not coming from us per se. It's coming from those 5 million users in the last 15 months as accumulative collective results.

Tom Raftery: 29:48

right.

Sunny @VeChain: 29:48

imagine with 10 times, a hundred times, even thousand times today's scale and the results is pretty impressive.

Tom Raftery: 29:56

Walk me through it from a practical perspective, Sunny. If I am a. Let's say a a, a retail store like Starbucks, for example, selling coffee or a.n. other retail outlet, selling whatever, selling widgets. How do I set up so that my users get access to your BTR tokens for doing good?

Sunny @VeChain: 30:27

It's very simple. Let's say for example, the Starbucks can be connecting with their POS system every time the user. come to the coffee, use the recycle mug like this other than disposable cup. Then instantly you get a data to a smart contract. Well, we can trust the Starbucks and then the people getting reward. Actually, it can be also a marketing tool for those companies. Let's say you can have a dedicated marketing campaign saying, okay, go to Starbucks Reserve in Milan, and for this couple weeks you get the extra rewards if you come up with recycled mugs. Or the other idea is, when you launch some mugs, new merchandise, new campaign in terms of calling the action from everybody to save the world together. Either, reduce the plastic waste or boost up some recycle product sales. Then you can use this way very easy, and you are targeting those users with the real actions and the verified on the blockchain. It's not like, email campaigns only say you send 10 million emails you basically, you talk about like 2% or 1% of the returning rate.

Tom Raftery: 31:44

Yep.

Sunny @VeChain: 31:44

But with the blockchain, you know, like, okay, this guy drinks coffee 10 times a week and he use a recycle mug all the time. So definitely he will be let's say loyalty customers for coffee and for the recycled mugs, and it will be more accurate marketing campaigns.

Tom Raftery: 32:04

And for the likes of a Starbucks or a. n. other company who are doing that, how are they getting access to the BTR tokens to then gift them to their customers? Do they have to purchase them and then give them out, or how does that work?

Sunny @VeChain: 32:24

Multiple ways. Firstly, you can participate in the VeBetter.com. So every week based on people's voting, like based on the user's voting, for example, you say. I like EVearn. I like, Green Card. I like whatever the application is, Scoop Up and I vote for them. And then every week there will be a token allocated. Basically that part is bootstrapping every project. You can use that type of the supply to reward the user or you can just buy from the market. And then reward the user as well. So basically make the whole ecosystem in a, closed journey. In terms of token supply and token flows.

Tom Raftery: 33:08

And if you had unlimited resources, what would you launch tomorrow?

Sunny @VeChain: 33:17

I would launch a platform scalable, able to support a 1 billion user, and also going every possible marketing campaigns to make everybody aware of that and join the ecosystem to be part of a 1 billion user.

Tom Raftery: 33:34

Okay. And where do you see this all heading? Is, is that the, the final goal or, yeah. Where do you see it all heading?

Sunny @VeChain: 33:43

Yeah, that's my goal. My goal is to try to make this platform so far is just 5 million user. I wanna make it as 1 billion user at least. Sustainability is a mission to everyone and it's the biggest consensus of the humankind. Right. And we have, we do have 8 billion people around the world.

Tom Raftery: 34:00

Hmm.

Sunny @VeChain: 34:01

and it could be growing up to be 10 or maybe 15 the next 20 years. So 1 billion user, I would say is just a starting point.

Tom Raftery: 34:10

Okay. And where do you see where, where do you see blockchain making the biggest sustainability impact in the next five, 10 years?

Sunny @VeChain: 34:19

Well, I'm doing that. I'm doing that. Honestly, I think it's not only about the blockchain itself, it's about the AI and across the blockchain. I believe the crypto eventually is actually designed for AI, well, eventually for people, but it's like a crypto for AI, AI for people. Right. And the, the technology for productivity and technology for relationship should be working together. And whatever from the supply chain, sustainability supply chain, or the individual actions, basically. For example, like vebetter.com right now, all of those applications is based on it's a machine to human. You provide your actions proof, I pay you token, I reward you token for that. And also it could be human to AI. It could be even AI to AI, different type of scenarios. And I always say in the next five years with blockchain as infrastructure and token, as kinda like a blood in the entire ecosystem, economic blood. And the AI is more like engines everywhere to enable more activities, more actions. And I think it's like a mandatory tool for the sustainability global rollouts.

Tom Raftery: 35:40

And of the ideas or the apps that are currently available, you've got EV charging, fashion the Scoop Up you mentioned, et cetera. Which of those apps excites you most and and why?

Sunny @VeChain: 35:59

We got a two application, actually, I, I, well, like I said, I'm an engineer, right? Based on solution, based on the results. Right now two application like Mac Shaw and a Green Card, they actually pass 2 million users mark. They're leading the way. And I expect them to continue to lead. But also I would calling the actions to all of the builders. You know, 2 million is good, but it's not that big number. I'm sure you can have a brilliant idea. Extreme iterations and a continue to drive for user growth. And only when we have, enough or certain level of user scale and we were able to explore more business opportunities, business models, engaging with more enterprises. So, yeah, I would say like, so far Mac Shaw and Green Card is leading the way. But I'm looking good for almost every applications, but it requires extreme effort with a startup mentality from every developers.

Tom Raftery: 37:03

If Tony Stark got his hands on VeChain, what would he build first?

Sunny @VeChain: 37:09

I would say Tony Stark will build the AI agents leveraging with with our blockchain ecosystem and make it more user friendly to user, like, you know, getting a Jarvis to be the personal assistant for everybody. Do this, do that. Remind me this, remind me that. Or simply to say like, okay, I wanna meet someone for a coffee and Jarvis, what's your suggestion? They will come up with the most sustainable options and remind you to bring your mug, even help you to submit the proof, to getting the rewards and also guide you to the next step as like your personal assistant for the first. And also with well, we don't need the Ironman, the whole set, but at least for example, with the AR glasses, like Meta glass, and it will be make the user journey even easier. Right, but right now you need to take a photo for everything you do or connecting your car or connecting, different type of the IOT devices. But if you got a Jarvis and then you gotta just, ask the Jarvis to do everything behind and you don't need to get your hands dirty and you still do your actions.

Tom Raftery: 38:27

Okay. Very A left field question for you, Sunny, if you could have any person or character alive or dead, real or fictional as a champion for blockchain for good, who would it be and why?

Sunny @VeChain: 38:44

Actually I have multiple options. And I'm, I'm greedy. I wanted to have many people to do that. I wanted Steve Jobs to be my product manager. To design the best product ever. And also one of my like personal idol like Kobe Bryant to share that kind of fighter mentality. You never give up. Even you have your, ankle breakage. You just walk it off. It's really like tough guy mentality. And I wanted to have that kind of a like, mentor always inspiring us, not only me, my per se, but also in my entire team to fight until our final destination.

Tom Raftery: 39:32

We're coming towards the end of the podcast now, Sunny, is there any question I haven't asked that you wish I had or any aspect of this we haven't touched on that you think it's important for people to be aware of?

Sunny @VeChain: 39:45

Not much. I think we, we talked a lot. Well, if you, let's say, if all of your audiences are curious about what's the recent updates? Just follow us on the x.com. VeChain official is our official account or visiting the VeChain dot org for more updates.

Tom Raftery: 40:04

Perfect. Great. Okay, Sunny, that's been fascinating. Thanks a million for coming on the podcast today.

Sunny @VeChain: 40:10

Yeah, thank you Tom.

Tom Raftery: 40:11

Okay. Thanks everyone for listening to this episode of the Resilient Supply Chain Podcast with me, Tom Raftery. Every week, thousands of senior supply chain and sustainability leaders tune in to learn what's next in resilience, innovation, and transformation. If your organisation wants to reach this influential global audience, the people shaping the future of supply chains, consider partnering with the show. Sponsorship isn't just brand visibility, it's thought leadership, credibility, and direct engagement with the decision makers driving change. To explore how we can spotlight your story or your solutions, connect with me on LinkedIn or drop me an email at Tom at tom Raftery dot com. Let's collaborate to build smarter, more resilient, more sustainable supply chains together. Thanks for tuning in, and I'll catch you all in the next episode.